Guys: In Enterprise and the Grunt, Juana and Cristina have an interesting discussion about Juana’s fab story about the WW II pilot ... Cristina notes that while lede is fab, coulda gone much harder-edged and reader- friendly with getting to the NEWS right after first sentence.... which leads me to the DQ:
-- What exactly is a nut graf? Is it the news? is it the Bigger Picture?
--- Can there be two (or more) kinds of NGs, ie, news, bigger meaning, and maybe even something else?
--- How far up (close to lede sentence) should that hard edged info go? graf two? Can you delay till graf 4 or 5?
--- Why do we (I put myself among the we, here) tend to write longer descriptive ledes that DELAY the news/ nut graf? Any examples of doing it one way or the other? Either from you or something from your paper?
--- Fotogs, I might add here, when you are writing captions (in effect, your nut graf), do you give the basic WWWWHW of the photo, or do you spin the story forward by using a quote or other descriptive info that brings the story into greater focus/ meaning (versus, Mary Jones, 16, of Lima, looks at birthday balloons as her family gathers around her on her birthday).
FYI, here is exerpt from J-C discussion:
from J-C discussion: Juana, because I love you. I’m gonna mess with you a little. You were talking about feature ledes being your weakness. For this story, I love the lede. But, I think you could’ve put the news part a lot higher—probably right behind the first sentence.
Susie Bain found her place in the sky when she was 21.
One day she was doing clerical work, the next she signed up to be one of the Women Airforce Service Pilots.
“It was just absolutely gorgeous just being up there,” Bain, 86, said. “We had what we thought was so much power behind us.”
Bain, who lives in North Austin, is one of 300 living WASP members soon to be honored with the Congressional Gold Medal.
Of course, you could do this.
Susie Bain flew once before she became a World War II pilot.
Bain, now 86, is one of 300 living Women Airforce Service Pilots who will get Congressional Gold Medals [when?].
The nut graph is the “so-what” graph that provides details and any WWWWWH’s that were left out of the lede. Typically, I like to through it in within the first three graphs. If you don’t tell a reader why their interested, you’ll lose them _ quick! Juana said it best that readers today just don’t have the time or patience. Even I—a storylover—will quit an article that takes too long to get to the point. Anytime a story comes out that buries the news, I tend to believe the writer was just too close and no one pulled them back. We, as writers, get so involved in being writers that we sometimes forget that we’re not writing prose; we’re writing news.
I fell into a trap while interning at The Roanoke Times as a news feature reporter. Most of the stories I covered had news pegs but were mostly featury. So, I decided to pull the reader in with a punchy, “say what?!” lede. When I look at those stories now, I’m embarrassed that a couple got jumped before the “so what?” Lesson: Get the news high!
In general, The Washington Post does a poor job at anecdotal ledes. The Wall Street Journal is great at it. (Just my opinion)
I’ve struggled with nut grafs for years. But we’ve become frenemies over the years so this is what I have to say about them:
I think we tend to write longer, descriptive ledes because we want to pull the reader in ... honestly I’d much rather read something that throws a personal story at me than a bunch of hard news. It also makes the reader care about what they’re reading about. I kind of think about it this way: we try to write for the common man. If you’re at a fair (sorry, just got back from one!) and you’re talking to a random person, are you more likely to listen to their story about how they lost the farm their family had for hundreds of years because of the economy or would you rather him spout out some facts and figures?
Hard news ledes/nut grafs works in hard news situations. I think different situations call for different measures but I still always try to make my ledes somewhat fun, even when it isn’t a long descriptive lede. Example: “The economy might be in a slump, but one area of business isn’t hurting: gun sales.” It’s to the point, doesn’t drone on about why a particular person is buying more guns, but it’s fun to read (at least to me).
As for where to put the nut graf ... I think that also depends on the situation. I think each story is different and you have to feel it out. But if you’re having trouble with it, I suggest writing the nut graf, sticking it in where you think you might like it, walking away for five minutes (if you aren’t on deadline) then coming back to it with refreshed eyes. Or ask your editor for help.
As a fotog, I tend to stick with the WWWHW in my captions. This is because I was taught that the photograph caption should not repeat what is already being said in the story, it should add or be something else of related interest. Therefore to avoid basically summing up the reporters story, I usually stick with the basics. I was also taught not to try to describe a person’s emotions in a photo caption in case you are wrong, and especially not an animal’s emotions. That’s not to say that if I have a great quote I won’t use it, I will, because it tends to make the captions more interesting and personal. If I have time, sometimes I look up information on a topic and put a sentence or two of additional information into the caption, (like when bowling was invented in a bowling photo).
In terms of an article, I agree with Cristina, readers lose interest quickly if they can’t figure out what the article is about. The higher up, the better.
My first instinct here is to say that nut graf placement depends entirely on the type of story you’re writing. But I don’t think that’s necessarily right. Instead, I think it depends on the medium and the audience.
Take for example, a long-form story written in a magazine known for 2000 word literary pieces. You’ve automatically got more room to be creative before getting into the nitty gritty WWWWWH of it all.
In a newspaper, not so much. You’ve got a certain number of column inches to tell a story. Sure, it should be a product of a writer’s creativity, but the bottom line is that you’ve got to tell the story and make people want to read it.
My question would be - how does our perception of where the nut graf should go change given a Web-first news approach. When we think about writing for print, we keep in mind (like Christina said) the “jump” as our guiding principal. I think that since most of our stories will be published online first, it’s crucial that we understand that the news needs to be as close to the beginning of a story as possible and we need that news to stand out.
I think we focus on punching up our ledes, but rarely give the same attention to a nut graf, which is a huge mistake. Without making them high up in a story and well-crafted, we lose online readers quicker (I would argue) than we lose our print readers. After all, online, there are a million different things that can pull your attention away, so readers are less likely to be invested in reading our stories.
I have to be honest and say that when it comes to captions I usually just stick to the basic AP style. The first sentence should identify the person(s), describe what they are doing, where, and what day. The second sentence provides background information that is important to understanding the situation. So far this internship I have included only two quotes.
I as a photographer have been taught to cram everything into two sentences and no more. This can be a challenge sometimes. Often I have to omit info that i think is interesting and hope that the reader will discover it later in the story. Captions with organization names, their purpose, stats, and including the people involved tend to be the hardest to write because it all has to fit into two concise sentences.
Photo stories and photo essays have more breathing room for captions and that is when quotes are more common.
I hate boring and obvious captions and sometimes it is all that is required. But in those cases I try to provide a little more insight and dig for that quote.
My caption writing has always been a little weak, but since this internship it has improved greatly. I think my captions have become more efficient. I have gotten really good at tracking people down and getting their names. This is hard sometimes especially at crowded events. Multi-taking is a must for us photographers. Taking pictures, quickly reviewing them in the LCD screen, editing on the spot, and then stopping to talk to people and getting their info can make one’s head spin. (Film photographer’s are my hero, master’s of their craft, not getting to see their pictures and then getting everyone’s names. whew!) This internship has helped me write captions more quickly too. My workflow and speed of caption writing has increased. Yeah!
I want people to read the story so I try to get as much info as possible and try to write captions that will complement and push the story further.
The nut graph is the “so-what” graph that provides details and any WWWWWH’s that were left out of the lede. If you don’t tell a reader why their interested, you’ll lose them _ quick!
This is interesting stuff. I think if you ask 10 different people you get 10 different answers… I used to say it was the news stuff (wwwwhw) after an anecdotal lede (to be used oh so sparingly, I fear)—but now I think it’s more a connecter graf, something that brings in the universal ... no matter where the wwwwhw stuff is....
Also, at this last stage, I think that a wwwwhw graf after an anecdotal or featue lede (spare apare!!!) CAN be tier one of a nut graf, but that the real connective tissue (as you say, why should people be interested????) is that universal ... the, oh, it’s all part of me too thing.... I’ll see if I can dig up some cool examples… that helps a lot....
honestly I’d much rather read something that throws a personal story at me than a bunch of hard news. It also makes the reader care about what they’re reading about. I kind of think about it this way: we try to write for the common man.
Yep, common man, the Great Connector.... I thyink the whole idea of WHY PEOLE CARE is interesting. How do we MAKE someone care? What if they don’t give a flying rat’s a-- about fairs or closing stores or warthogs .... how do we create caring???
That’s that univiversal thing I’m talking about… would love to see good exs to learn from. I will dig some up.....
I want people to read the story so I try to get as much info as possible and try to write captions that will complement and push the story further.
yep, I’ve been involved in a number of stories where the LENGTH of the story has to be chopped way down, and so a lot of the extra material, inlduing quotes from people in fotos, go into the fot caption, to create a “mini-story....” and those min-stories theen can both stand on their own, or complement the story proper....
This is because I was taught that the photograph caption should not repeat what is already being said in the story, it should add or be something else of related interest.
yep… in effect, move the story forward… or have enough to have the photo/s stand on its own with a whole mini-story attached....
would love to hear people’s ideas for fotos essays you are batting about ....
did anyone do a fourth of july feature???????????????????
-- What exactly is a nut graf? Is it the news? is it the Bigger Picture?
from J-C discussion: Juana, because I love you. I’m gonna mess with you a little. You were talking about feature ledes being your weakness. For this story, I love the lede. But, I think
Interesting Example of WHAT WE BEEN TALKIN ABOUT
In NYT Sunday, piece about “tumultuous year” for Alaska as it comes upon 50-year anniversary of statehood....
NYT Version (top):
WASILLA, Alaska — Politics and parody converge in the new Alaska. Right there on Wasilla Lake not long ago, in clear view of the former residence of Gov. Sarah Palin, two Russian pastors dipped seven Russian teenagers into the water as their mothers and fathers sang Russian hymns on a brilliant morning.
Tina Fey was not involved. It was a real live baptism ceremony for Emanuel Evangelical Church, one of a handful of churches attended by Russian immigrants here in the Matanuska-Susitna Valley. It seems that if Ms. Palin could not, in fact, see Russia from her house, she might at least have seen its people.
“Really?” said one of the pastors, Anatoliy Senyak, when told that the home Ms. Palin lived in while she was mayor here was just across the water. He was amused at the comic potential of the moment, but quickly emphasized that his congregation did not get “physically” involved in politics.
“Our role here,” he said, “is just to pray for the government.”
[color=red](PROBABLE ‘NUT GRAF’) It has been a remarkably tumultuous year here as Alaska celebrates its 50th anniversary of statehood. Sure, Ms. Palin roared out of sub-Arctic obscurity, but there was more: state lawmakers went to prison for corruption and then, in some cases, got out; a sitting United States senator was found guilty of a felony, at least temporarily; the ultimate measure of government stability here, the price of oil, went into freefall, then rose again.
“Will things return to normal?” said Scott Goldsmith, a professor of economics at the University of Alaska Anchorage’s Institute for Social and Economic Research. “The thing is, they’ve never been normal up here.”
Here is Sun-Sentinel (edited down) version: (Notice ‘nut graf’ of original becomes lede and “news"of wire version .... read my comment below…
It has been a remarkably tumultuous year here as Alaska celebrates its 50th anniversary of statehood. Sure, Sarah Palin roared out of sub-Arctic obscurity, but there was more: state lawmakers went to prison for corruption and then, in some cases, got out; a sitting United States senator was found guilty of a felony, at least temporarily; the ultimate measure of government stability here, the price of oil, went into freefall, then rose again.
“Will things return to normal?” said Scott Goldsmith, a professor of economics at the University of Alaska Anchorage’s Institute for Social and Economic Research. “The thing is, they’ve never been normal up here.”
Argument 1: descriptive anecdotal lede of original NYT is too long and meandering for newsy story, thus “news/ core/ nut info” becomes lede of edited. HOWEVER, I would argue that the REAL NUT GRAF, which in edited version is both lede and nut graf, is Goldsmith’s quote—i.e., news is 50 year anniversary, context is crazy Palin year, REAL CORE IS “nothing has ever been normal here...” in other words, that information spins the story deeper into psycho-social analysis of the character of Alaska .... thoughts?
... I’m going to have to disagree and say I don’t think the lede works here. I like the idea but I think they could have gone with another example than the Russia thing. I don’t see how it connects to the story at all. Maybe they could’ve done something like (and remember, this is a really rough, working example ... not perfect by any means):
“Sarah Palin. Officials accused of corruption. Ethics investigations.” (I added the ethics thing in there ... )
“These are just a few of the things that have come to mark Alaska in the national spotlight, as the state celebrates what has been a tumultuous 50th year.”
... the second sentence kind of sucks, but you get the idea. I’m working and tried to do that quickly
… I’m going to have to disagree and say I don’t think the lede works here. I like the idea but I think they could have gone with another example than the Russia thing. )
J—first of all YOU ARE ALLOWED TO DISAGREE!!! second, you are not disagreeingw/ me, as I thought the original NYT lede was meandering and slightly precious and I much preferred the nut-graf lede, and yours! I just think it’s an interesting example of the kind of stuff people have been talking about here....
